I'm Genuinely Curious--What Do Men Actually Expect When They Catcall a Woman?

in #life8 years ago (edited)

Another woman has been assaulted for ignoring a man who catcalled her. Why is this becoming a "thing?"

It's not the first time I've heard of this happening. But, it seems to be happening more often now than it did in the past. Or, maybe we just have more citizen journalists chronicling these things, thanks to the Internet. Either way, I find it highly disturbing. 

And, it's got me pondering the whole catcalling thing.

A Disclaimer--This is NOT an Article to Bash Men

Really. I'm not bashing men here AT ALL

I LOVE men. Men are awesome. I have amazing male family members, and incredible male friends. I adore them, and think men are glorious in general. 

I've taken the man's side in many a breakup/custody dispute/alimony argument/tale of cheating, etc. I know men can be treated horribly by women, and I stand up for them if I notice it happening.

I am a heterosexual female of childbearing age. Men are basically my thing. :)

But, not every man is a good guy. Just like not every woman is a good woman. There are bad apples in every bunch. 

Not every man who catcalls a woman is a bad guy, either. Some just do it for fun. I know this. 

This post is about the bad guys, and a question in general for all men.

Why Does the Urge to Catcall Exist in the First Place?

I mean, has any man EVER gotten laid from catcalling a woman? Surely you guys don't expect this to be the outcome of a catcall, right? So, why do you do it?

It's a legitimate question. I'm actually curious. If you've ever catcalled a woman, what was your purpose and/or goal in doing so?

I know most of you who do it mean no harm by it. But, I'm still curious as to WHY you do it? Do you think you're giving the woman a compliment? Or, do you truly hope to get some reciprocal attention out of it, or even a date? If so, what makes you think this is the best way to approach a woman who doesn't know you?

We're wary of strangers, and with good reason.

Catcalling Starts Early for Most Women, and So Do Our Lessons in Dealing With It

Honestly, I've been being catcalled since I was in freaking elementary school. And, I wasn't even an "early bloomer." My boobs didn't come in until well into junior high.

But, even as young children, my girlfriends and I would get catcalled by older boys, usually teenagers, but sometimes grown men. It would happen while we rode our bikes around the neighborhood, played at the park, and, every now and then, even in our own front yards. 

I remember it occurring as early as about third grade. And, it wasn't just me. As I said, my girlfriends got it, too. It happened when we were together, and when we were alone.

I was legit about two years younger than I am in this photo when I first remember beginning to deal with catcalling from older guys.

Our mothers told us to just ignore it. So, we did. We're taught from a young age to not talk to strangers, after all, and no one seems quite so strange to a little girl as a much bigger man whistling at you, or going "Whoo-oooo!" as he drives by you in his car.

And, so, we grew up knowing this was the best technique to use on catcalling....ignore it. Most guys seemed okay with this. We never got harassed for not responding to these men. It was like some game they were playing, only we girls didn't know the rules.

We still don't.

And, something's changed. Now, it seems more men are becoming violent when girls and grown women do what we've been taught to do from childhood and ignore those catcalls.

Why?

Why the Violence, Dudes?

The most recent assault on a woman who ignored a catcaller seems to be a case of a guy being pissed off that a woman ignored him. But, other recent cases have more complex roots. One recent case, where a guy went on a woman-assaulting spree, seems to be based in a frustration with women on the part of the man who did it. Just before the assault, he admitted to a friend he was lonely, and couldn't get a woman to pay any attention to him. 

When the woman he catcalled ignored him, as we are taught from childhood to do, it appears to have just pushed him over the edge. It was one rejection too many.

I feel for him. I honestly do. It must hurt to be that lonely.

However, stable men do NOT beat up women for ignoring their catcalling.

This guy was obviously in need of some psychotherapy, as anyone who would be pushed to violence by something like this is clearly a ticking time bomb of mental issues. And, it's probably not ALL based on his constant rejection by women.

In fact, the consistent female rejection COULD be BECAUSE he has mental issues most women can see a mile away. Most women don't want to get involved with someone who practically has "trouble" written in Sharpie on their forehead.

A recognition of his need for therapy and a willingness to get it could turn things around for him in a big way with women. I'm sure he has nice things to bring to the table in a relationship....most people do. A potential partner just has to see that the worst of the mental health issues have been handled before they will be willing to take the risk of getting involved.

Now, not every woman has "craydar" (my made-up term for "crazy radar"....like it?). That's why you hear of women being in horrible relationships, and not making a move to leave because they're happy to have any man. They are also the women who keep going from one awful relationship to another.

Those women are the exception, rather than the rule. Most of us have excellent craydar.

An Example of the Type of Man Who Would Hurt a Woman for Ignoring a Catcall

My husband has a friend who is good looking, successful, respectful, and charming. Women fall for him all the time, and I can totally see why. But, none of his relationships have ever lasted more than six months, and most of them have ended in a restraining order against him. 

Do you know why?

It's because, of the four lovely qualities of his I listed above, "respectful" and "charming" are illusions he puts on to attract women to him, kind of like a spider to a fly. Once he's got a woman dating him, or, every now and then, married to him (yes, he's been married, but never for more than a few months at a time), he drops the facade. 

He turns into a jealous, controlling monster, who has some seriously severe anger management issues. He begins to verbally abuse them, and that quickly turns into physical abuse. The women leave with all due haste at that point.

He's never had therapy, but he needs it. And any woman who has dated or married him did not have the proper craydar.

I've always liked him. I met him at the same time I met my husband, because they were playing in a band together. He and my husband were both hot, long-haired musicians, and I admittedly am a sucker for a hot, long-haired musician. But, even before I knew him well, I never would have dated him. His vibe just screamed "dangerous" to me. And, that was before I knew he actually was dangerous.

We've socialized with him quite a bit. He's never been anything but respectful and gentlemanly toward me. But, I KNOW if I ever dated him, it would change in an instant. 

I've seen it happen time and again over the past two decades with the women he DOES date. He never changes, and he never keeps a relationship, because he never got the help he needs for his anger management issues.

He is the kind of guy who would assault a woman who ignored his catcalling.

I Don't Think it's Even a Cultural Thing

This actually happens to a lot of women who ignore catcallers.

When I read about assaults on women who ignore catcalling, I sometimes wonder if women in other countries have it worse. You know, places where women are considered less human than men, or are regarded as property. Do they even have the right in their countries to ignore this kind of unwanted attention? Or, is it a "no win" situation for them, because they would get in trouble with their relatives or community leaders if they DID respond?

It might be worse for women in those places, and some men from those places may come here and treat women badly who ignore their catcalls. Those are instances where the cultural views of women are just really different.

But, not every case of violence can be blamed on culture. I don't even think MOST of them can.

I think it's a question of whether a guy feels respected. Most men, I think (or, I'd LIKE to think) don't expect to get any attention out of a catcall. They just do it for fun. If a woman gives them attention back, all the better, and their day is a little brighter, but if the woman ignores them, it's no big deal. They didn't expect her to, anyway, so they just move on to the next one. It's kind of like an amusing game to them.

Once I grew up, I would sometimes give a catcaller a smile, a wave, a laugh, or a thumbs up. I still do. It all depends on whether the individual man, or group of men, doing the catcalling seem treacherous or harmless.

You can usually tell just by glancing at them.

I'm game to play along. Most catcallers are probably nice, regular guys. But, I only play if the situation seems safe, and the "craydar" doesn't go off as I get near them. The potentially dangerous catcallers SHOULD be ignored, like our mothers taught us. They are the type who would follow you down the street if you so much as made eye contact with them after they catcalled you.

Stalkers.

It's usually the stalker type who take it as a sign of disrespect and an affront to their manhood to have a woman ignore their catcall. These are the ones you want to get away from as soon as you can. Maybe, you know, cross the street, duck into a store, or get lost in a crowd of people so he can't see you anymore.

I think perceptions of respect (and what constitutes it), combined with a man's expectations from a catcall have a lot to do with how they respond to being ignored, regardless of culture.

I also think individual catcallers are far more likely to be dangerous than groups of men catcalling. With groups, it usually IS just done for fun. 

A lone wolf is on the hunt. As women, we have to beware. Most of us are in a state of hyper-alertness in these situations. It doesn't always ensure safety, though, as can be seen from these high profile news articles of women being hurt, or even killed, for ignoring a catcall.

Do we want this type of behavior to just be accepted as a social norm, with the burden on the women to ensure their own safety?

Or, do we maybe want to teach our young boys and men that catcalling is not polite, gentlemanly behavior?

Because, honestly, even when we gamely play back, the catcalling still makes most of us just ever so slightly uncomfortable. We may give you a smile if we're feeling safe (and generous), but most of us would prefer you didn't do it at all.

There are better, more civilized ways of getting our attention, if you want it that badly. And, we'll give it to you if you approach us correctly. Catcalling isn't the correct way to go. 

Conclusion--Let's Leave Catcalling in the Jungle, Where it Belongs

I suspect catcalling is some primal thing our primitive ancestors did to get the females to pay attention to them over the other males. It may still go on amongst the monkey community, for all I know. It seems like monkey behavior.

Surely we're evolved enough to know this is no longer the best way to get a woman's attention. If you're looking to hook up with a primate, or a cavewoman, sure. But modern women are not impressed with this behavior. I would hope most men know it.

Let's make the world a little safer for women, at least in the western nations, where they have equal rights to men. Let's teach our sons that catcalling isn't cool, that most women don't like it, and that it is ungentlemanly to make a woman feel uncomfortable that way.

Let's teach them better ways of initiating courtship, or even just a casual hookup, if that's what they want. Let them know most women will routinely ignore a catcall, and to not take it personally.

Above all, let's teach them that violence against women who reject them is never acceptable. Teach them women get rejected, too, and that it's a natural part of dating that they need to accept gracefully.

With time, good manners, mental health therapy if needed, and a little patience, they will find the "one."

If you enjoyed this post, please follow me at @stephmckenzie for more intriguing musings on life, the universe, and everything. Thanks!

Photo credit for thumbnail photo:  DailyMail.co.uk

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2 different issues here.

1- the dude who attacked a woman for ignoring his cat calls is out of whack. That's a losing move in the game of life/sex/love and there may be some underlying mental issues going on there.

2-what do men actually expect when they cat call a woman? To me it's just biology. Have you ever gone outside on a summer night and listened to the symphony of creatures cat calling to each other? It's deafening with the cicadas here sometimes in the south! that's just what animals do! The males show off...elaborately choreographed displays of fancy plumage, rhythmic croaking or chirping, sports cars and "hey hottie" calls, and the females choose to which male they will respond.

Human male and female animals are not unique exceptions to biology. Only we have more highly developed egos and we have crafted ways to protect those fragile things. In an effort to feel somewhat superior we try and use shame (poison to the ego) to tame or dismiss those natural biological actions.

There's definitely a biological urge. I asked my husband about it when I was writing this, as he used to work in construction in his youth. He said they would get fired for catcalling, but the urge was there. He even said some women would walk by and flash their breasts at the crew. Those were women looking for sex with a stranger, but that's not MOST women. Most women know we have to be wary of strangers in this day and age, because of that "stranger danger" thing. I mean, yes, men we know can be dangerous to us, too. But, we feel more ill at ease around strangers giving us this kind of attention, because we don't know what to expect from them.

I always thought catcalling was just bad manners. But, there is probably a biological urge to do it. I would hope we have evolved enough to find other ways of getting each other's attention, though. If a guy I knew personally catcalled me, I'd think it was fun and cool. But, when a stranger does it, it's creepy.

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Interesting write up. Well done.

Personally, I can't think of an instance where I have ever catcalled a woman. Believe it or not, I'm too shy for that.

Having said that, I'm trying my best to understand what the big deal is. I'm mean, let's consider a few alternatives.

Any hope that an attractive woman can or should be able to walk down the street and not be visually admired (by men and women alike) is unrealistic. Men in particular are hardwired to notice, hardwired for instant attraction. To expect men not to notice is to expect men to defy biology and evolution. It's not going to happen. Ever. Not even if you put women in burkas (then men will just fixate on the ankle peeking out below or the stray hair that escapes its bondage). In short, deep in their bellies and at an unconscious level, men want to GIVE attention to the lovely and express their appreciation for it.

And further, the vast majority of attractive women want to be noticed. They want it not just a little, but alot. They often go to great lengths to get noticed. Why? Again, biology and evolultion. In short, deep in their bellies and at an unconscious level, women want the attention of males. Even women who have a mate still crave the attention of other males.

Given the above, what "should" happen in an "ideal" world? Should men adapt? Should they use their willpower to just ignore women? If so, then how would an attractive women feel if she were completely and regularly overlooked? And how would men feel if they were forced never to voice their appreciation?

Or, perhaps it is women who should adapt to men? Perhaps women should dress in burkas so as not to willingly draw any attention to their loveliness? Well, we already know that this approach doesn't work. Incidence of rape and sexual abuse if far, far greater in countries where female expressions of sexuality are repressed.

It seems to me that there should be some way for men to express their appreciation and admiration, even to stranger women, and for women to receive that admiration in ways that don't threaten them. Among the available options, an appreciative whistle seems pretty harmless and effective. Men get to appreciate, and women get to be appreciated, usually from a distance.

Would women be safer if men were to bite their tongues? I don't think so. Women would just feel unacknowledged. I don't think there is a shred of evidence suggesting that men who catcall are more likely to attack a woman than those who don't, or that a woman who is catcalled is more likely to be attacked than one who isn't. In fact, the opposite might very well be true: By catcalling, attention is drawn to the woman from all quarters. Multiple eyes are directed toward the source of loveliness. Many of those eyes would be far more likely to protect and defend the woman than to participate in attacking her. If anything, catcalls might be protective.

So, why do men catcall? To express interest and appreciation. How else would you suppose they do so? Why do they need to express interest and appreciation? Evolution. Why does evolution hard wire men for this need? Because for reason's I've explained at great length in other posts, the sex with the most plentiful sexual output (which is usually the male of every species, but not always) ALWAYS pursues the sex with the least plentiful sexual output. Said another way, the fertilizer pursues the fertilized, or the sperm pursues the egg.

Given this, men's chances of sexually reproducing and passing a great many of his genes to the next generation are effectively zero unless he pursues--that is, unless he expresses interest and appreciation. His odds may only be 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000, but his odds are 1 and a trillion if he does NOT pursue/express.

And again, among the many ways that men can express their interest, catcalling seems relatively harmless.

My statements above discuss men and women "on average" and in general. There are always exceptions. But averages are meaningful, and studying them can be beneficial.

A great explanation, and very thoughtful and insightful. And, you're right. Women DO want attention. For me and most of the women I know, though, receiving attention from strangers on the street is a little bit threatening. We don't know these people at all, even a little, so we don't know if they're dangerous if they're going to start following us, if they're going to become violent if we don't give them an acknowledgement.

Up until the time I got married, I dressed to get attention from men, but I wanted attention from men I KNEW. Men who were part of my social group somehow, even in a peripheral way, who I encountered on a personal basis every now and then. They weren't total strangers. Because I knew who they were, I felt safe trying to get their attention in whatever scantily dressed way I could. :)

Even since I've been married, I've been known to dress up to gain attention in certain situations, though these are times when I just want certain men to look at me and appreciate what they see from afar, not actually come up and talk to me....because I'm usually with my husband at these times.

I think it's the "stranger danger" thing that makes most of the women I know, including me, get freaked out when we get catcalled by men we don't know. And, there ARE guys who can become violent if you don't acknowledge them. I've read enough articles about this happening recently that it made me ponder the whole catcalling thing and write this article.

This is a good conversation. I'm glad we're having it.

I get the stranger danger idea, but I'm still trying to figure out why catcalling triggers it. An attractive woman will be noticed by many strangers whether they catcall or not. Are catcalling strangers more aggressive or dangerous than others? I'm not aware of anything that supports that conclusion. If they are not, then isn't catcalling as harmless as any other mating call or expression of appreciation?

Or is it just that the catcall keeps the woman from pretending to herself that nobody is looking? She feels safe so long as she is willfully blind to her admirers, but perhaps the catcall disturbs her willful blindness. If so, does that make it somehow improper? And would every (or most) women feel the same way?

Yes, good conversation. Thanks for raising the issue.

I think most of us DO know we're being looked at, and possibly admired (if we're looking particularly good that day and know it), but the catcaller DOES break into the woman's willful ignorance of this attention. Unless we're deliberately trying to draw it, most of us like to at least pretend we're not being noticed. That's why a catcall can seem aggressive and trigger the "stranger danger" response. There's a guy who is pointing out, in a very public and loud way, that you got his attention. It's like walking through a pack of lions, hoping one of them doesn't notice you, and then one looks up and growls. It can be unnerving.

I can see it from both the male and female sides, and I know most catcallers don't become violent. But, it still triggers that "run away" response in most women, unless they are deliberately trying to attract such attention.

Oh, and then there are the guys who catcall little girls, as I mentioned in the post. I started getting catcalled when I was only about eight years old, as did most of my girlfriends. Why would a grown man catcall a kid?

A good conversation to have, indeed. Let's bring the two sides together and have a deeper understanding of the issue.

TV is showing women as slaves 24/24. Cavemen had good manners.

That could definitely be part of it. Cavemen were probably polite compared to some of the images we're shown today, for sure.

@stephmckenzie

//What Do Men Actually Expect When They Catcall a Woman?//

From an anthropological perspective it raises the mating value of a woman. It creates a fuss that can focus attraction. It can then initiate competition between the males so that the female can mate with the best.

It's a mating ritual

That is true. But, it's a primitive one. It might have been very effective back in caveman times. But, how many men do you actually know who have had success with it in the 20th or 21st century?

Most men have primal instincts. They don't mean disrespect. In their mind, if they catcall a woman, they're doing a good thing, by helping a woman feel better about herself..

Which, as an intelligent person (which is self-proclaimed), I always look at how the receiving side would interpret anything I do, before I do it.

So...

Are guys trying to be pigs and uncouth while they are trying to catcall a woman? NO

Are guys pigs and uncouth while they are trying to catcall a woman? YES

The intention is right. The execution is poor. Guys need to learn that this type of behavior is not well received -- so stop doing it. :)

Yes! This! You put it just about perfectly.

This is a very interesting topic. I'll include part of what I know, then maybe I'll write more if anyone is interested.....I was a street musician for 12 years. I came in close proximity to atleast 1,000,000 strangers by my estimations. .I saw many men "catcall" women & not once, NEVER, did I see a woman give a favorable response. .Women instinctively know that, men who are good with women aren't gonna try that approach. .Catcalling men know that the women they are catcalling are WAY out of their league anyway. These guys know that they do not have a snowballs chance in hell of scoring with the woman. Therefore, without anything to loose(or gain), they yell something because it's as close as they'll ever get...As I recall, catcalling men are with atleast one other man, if not a group of men.. Maybe he does it to impress his friends?...About it getting more physical, I never saw that. Here in Texas people are more protective of each other overall. .There's a lot of people(men and women) here who would jump in & beat the guys ass...haha.......Boris

Great story. Thanks for sharing. Yes, I don't know any women who like being catcalled. It makes us feel ill at ease, and makes us wonder if the man or men doing it mean us harm.

Your welcome. Although it is inconsiderate, I've never seen anyone do it to be intentionally harmful. It's just that they do not have a better concept to work with. Obviously, some have done it out of animosity, in some cases. Most confrontational situations can be minimized by breaking rapport. Rapport is all about similarity. About the matching "vibe" so to speak. If you mismatch the other persons "vibe', you can avoid a lot of problems.. When I think of rapport, I always think of the Jerry Springer show. While the content of the argument suggests that they disagree, their underlying "vibe" shows that they match each other perfectly. Do you see how that happens?.. You may have to look some reruns on Youtube or wherever to watch old Jerry Springer episodes these days.

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I had to ask Deb what catcalling was - must be an American thing! - I think that would go down VERY badly in NZ!

Even our cat was perplexed :)

What a pretty cat! I think catcalling is called that in the states and the UK, because I've read some articles about it in publications from both places. I guess it hasn't made it below the equator yet. ;)

Really Good article. Several really good points that definitely need to be discussed. In my opinion anything that leads to violence is not good for anyone, period.

It is a shame that what has been throughout history a form of play or "showing off" has turned into what is now called "Catcalling" and is a bad thing.

The world has changed so much that now it is not even worth trying to defend this "Old Time" play because now it has turned into a very dishonorable thing to do and has been getting more disrespectful for the last 30+ years.

When I was young "Catcalling" was an "Art" and if done correctly could end with everyone smiling and maybe even a date or at the least a woman smiling and most often blowing a kiss. All in fun with utmost respect. Back then women thought it was "silly & cute" and they liked the attention.

But for the last 20-30 years men have been disrespecting woman so bad it is to the point where we have been teaching our sons (both of mine) to just not do it at all. Gentlemen do NOT "Catcall" at women, period.

And there is just no defending crazy, violent people, period.

"Read More, Reason More" ... JTS

I know many women who enjoy catcalling. The difference is it's not really done out of anything other than for fun and the guy doesn't have some bizarre investment in the act. Other than being pleasantly surprised at a favoured response.

My modern cat calls are a little wave, smile and a bow . ...

Those are much more polite, less invasive, and less unnerving ways of getting a woman's attention. You're more likely to get a smile and a wave back that way.

. /wave
.. /smile
... /bow !

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