Any unpopular Azaleas?

JosephCooper

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Hello!

In my short experience in bonsai I've noticed that nearly all Azalea except Satsuki are pretty uncommon for bonsai. I've heard Encore is nice, but others don't recommend it.

However! I stumbled upon the Azalea "Duc de Rohan" for very cheap as landscape stock at Home Depot. The flowers are nice, but large.

Found some decent trunks too. Apparently they flower nearly all year, and the leaves are decently small.
Azaleas.JPGtrunk.JPG

They also aren't quite as brittle, so wiring wasn't too bad.

Tell me what you think and show me some of yours!
 

sparklemotion

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Here's the Candy Lights Azalea that I picked up last spring before I knew much about anything. Like other cold hardy azaleas, it has large leaves, and probably won't ramify well, but we'll see.

IMG_20170807_081222.jpg
I love the way that the surface roots look like fingers gripping the soil. I am hoping that they aren't girdling the trunk because I'd like to do something fun with them in a proper planting.

I haven't seen it bloom yet, but it set buds last year. The flowers are supposed to look like this:
9a6fc2.jpg
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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If you lined up a dozen azaleas of equal trunk diameters, and 6 were Satsuki types and 6 were other types of azalea, chances are fairly good that 5 of the 6 Satsuki's would rate as ''better'' bonsai when scoring such things as leaf size, ability to back bud, ramification, proportions, and so on. Pretty much across the board, Satsuki and Kurume azaleas rate very high as bonsai.

Now if you compared the 6 non-satsuki azalea, to 6 flowering trees of other genera, for example Malus, Prunus, Cotoneaster, and so on, At least some of non-Satsuki azalea would probably hold their own. Some species of azalea will make good bonsai when compared to things like Malus.

Also keep in mind, the term Azalea is a horticultural term. There is no botanical distinction that separates azalea from Rhododendron. Some things routinely called Rhododendron have leaves as small or even smaller than an Azalea. Though it is true the majority of evergreen Rhododendrons have larger leaves than Satsuki azalea. Satsuki azalea are the group of hybrids from the species Rhododendron indica, with a dozen or so other species mixed in. Rhododendron dauricum is talked about by gardeners as a Rhododendron, not an azalea, yet it has leaves that are as small as any Satsuki azalea. I saw a photo posted a few years back of a lovely bonsai styled from R. dauricum. The distinction between the groups is an arbitrary one. A read worth slogging through is the Rhododendron page of Wikipedia. There the botanical classification of Rhododendron is outlined, and some species information is available too.

So what is my point. Satsuki azaleas (Rhododendron indica hybrids) possess multiple traits that make for attractive bonsai. It is not just about the flowers. The leaf size, growth habits and other traits all come into play.

Other species, or hybrids, from other groups in the genus Rhododendron can have good traits for bonsai. Some make excellent bonsai. Many have a few traits that are good but not all of the good traits that Satsuki have in a single package. I myself had ''played'' with a couple Vireya rhododendrons, with the thought of them being good for under lights, grow in the orchid collection indoor bonsai. My success was limited, I started with 3 species and 1 hybrid Vireya, and by the 10th year of the experiment, all were dead. My indoor horticulture was not quite enough to keep Vireya happy long term. The species R. pauciflorum, had wonderful tiny leaves, less than 1 inch long, rounded like green coins, but the branches were coarse, it did not want to develop more than 2 levels of branching. It also being small was sensitive to drying out. It did bloom several times for me, lovely small red hanging bells for flowers. The R pauciflorum died after about 6 years. R christiae has very long internodes, and larger than 2 inch leaves. It became unhappy relatively quick, was the first casualty. The R carringtoniae lasted longer than the pauciflorum, it s leaves were about 2 inches, and did not want to reduce. It never bloomed for me. The last was a hybrid, it lasted 10 years. Very coarse branching. Leaves were about 4 inches long, way out of proportions for a 24 inch tall plant. Branching was sparse. BUT, the flowers were fabulous. Big heads of very, very fragrant flowers. Lovely mix of pastel shades. So I kept it. It was an accident that did it in, rather than my under lights orchid horticulture. During its summer vacation in the back yard the then new puppy got ahold of it and used it as a chew toy. That was a dark day for doggy, but he survived it, grew out of the chew everything phase and lived another 15 years.

So those are some of the issues you will find if you wander away from Satsuki - coarse branching, or big leaves, or long internodes, or sometimes difficult horticulture, or ??? It all depends. Do your homework, other Rhododendrons are certainly worth the exploration. The landscape Rhodies, like 'Rosebud' have relatively small leaves, but they do not form finely branched structure. They could be used for medium and larger sized bonsai. They do have good winter hardiness.

Browse http://hirsutum.info/index.html and other sites to see what is out there. There are some interesting possibilities.

I personally think a number of the Vireya group of Rhododendron should be trialed as possible tropical bonsai. They come from the same habitats as many of my favorite orchids for home growing. Some of them at least in theory should be acceptable growing alongside my Cattleya or Dendrobium orchids. At least in theory.
http://www.bovees.com/
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I am also an advocate of North American growers experimenting with the Northern Lights series of deciduous azaleas. The advantage of having true zone 4 winter hardy azaleas is considerable. What I have seen, and my limited (short, less than 2 year) experience is this group has a tendency toward long internodes and relatively coarse branching. Better branching than some other Rhododendrons, but still rather reluctant to do multiple levels of ramification. The Northern lights series has only been available the last 30 years, so there really has not been time to get ''urban yamadori'' with significant trunks yet. I really do think this is a group worth working with.

Similar, the Encore series has rather coarse structure, but in most ways resembles Satsuki. They do have timing issues, because they set bloom so easily, and can bloom in any season, that figuring out when to do what is a real problem. And again, probably best for medium to larger size trees. They are very new on the market, you won't find 20 year old trunks for sale yet.

So Satsuki are the main stay, in part because they were ''first on the scene'', other groups have a lot of catching up to do.
 

JosephCooper

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I see, Azaleas usually have either nice flowers, good branching, or small leaves. Most only have one of those traits. Duc de Rohan has nice flowers, small leaves (about 1/2 to 3/4" long) but not good, branching. There were scarcely even 2 layers of foliage, nearly all the leaves were at the top. Took a ton of wiring to pull the tree down to a decent height. But they are worth experimenting on.
 

GrimLore

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There were scarcely even 2 layers of foliage, nearly all the leaves were at the top. Took a ton of wiring to pull the tree down to a decent height. But they are worth experimenting on.

When you picked them up they only had exposure to top lighting - when you spread out the branches, trim, allow light inside they will behave quite different and should become full, and I would not be surprised after two seasons a bit of work to keep controlled...

There are plenty of very nice non Satsuki varieties that offer small leaf and can be a lot of fun to work with. As with any other plant from a Landscape Nursery or Big Box store they just need acclimation and better growing conditions then they had prior to your purchase.

@Mellow Mullet might have some examples to share when he has time ;)

Grimmy
 

Vasyl

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If you lined up a dozen azaleas of equal trunk diameters, and 6 were Satsuki types and 6 were other types of azalea, chances are fairly good that 5 of the 6 Satsuki's would rate as ''better'' bonsai when scoring such things as leaf size, ability to back bud, ramification, proportions, and so on. Pretty much across the board, Satsuki and Kurume azaleas rate very high as bonsai.

Now if you compared the 6 non-satsuki azalea, to 6 flowering trees of other genera, for example Malus, Prunus, Cotoneaster, and so on, At least some of non-Satsuki azalea would probably hold their own. Some species of azalea will make good bonsai when compared to things like Malus.

Also keep in mind, the term Azalea is a horticultural term. There is no botanical distinction that separates azalea from Rhododendron. Some things routinely called Rhododendron have leaves as small or even smaller than an Azalea. Though it is true the majority of evergreen Rhododendrons have larger leaves than Satsuki azalea. Satsuki azalea are the group of hybrids from the species Rhododendron indica, with a dozen or so other species mixed in. Rhododendron dauricum is talked about by gardeners as a Rhododendron, not an azalea, yet it has leaves that are as small as any Satsuki azalea. I saw a photo posted a few years back of a lovely bonsai styled from R. dauricum. The distinction between the groups is an arbitrary one. A read worth slogging through is the Rhododendron page of Wikipedia. There the botanical classification of Rhododendron is outlined, and some species information is available too.

So what is my point. Satsuki azaleas (Rhododendron indica hybrids) possess multiple traits that make for attractive bonsai. It is not just about the flowers. The leaf size, growth habits and other traits all come into play.

Other species, or hybrids, from other groups in the genus Rhododendron can have good traits for bonsai. Some make excellent bonsai. Many have a few traits that are good but not all of the good traits that Satsuki have in a single package. I myself had ''played'' with a couple Vireya rhododendrons, with the thought of them being good for under lights, grow in the orchid collection indoor bonsai. My success was limited, I started with 3 species and 1 hybrid Vireya, and by the 10th year of the experiment, all were dead. My indoor horticulture was not quite enough to keep Vireya happy long term. The species R. pauciflorum, had wonderful tiny leaves, less than 1 inch long, rounded like green coins, but the branches were coarse, it did not want to develop more than 2 levels of branching. It also being small was sensitive to drying out. It did bloom several times for me, lovely small red hanging bells for flowers. The R pauciflorum died after about 6 years. R christiae has very long internodes, and larger than 2 inch leaves. It became unhappy relatively quick, was the first casualty. The R carringtoniae lasted longer than the pauciflorum, it s leaves were about 2 inches, and did not want to reduce. It never bloomed for me. The last was a hybrid, it lasted 10 years. Very coarse branching. Leaves were about 4 inches long, way out of proportions for a 24 inch tall plant. Branching was sparse. BUT, the flowers were fabulous. Big heads of very, very fragrant flowers. Lovely mix of pastel shades. So I kept it. It was an accident that did it in, rather than my under lights orchid horticulture. During its summer vacation in the back yard the then new puppy got ahold of it and used it as a chew toy. That was a dark day for doggy, but he survived it, grew out of the chew everything phase and lived another 15 years.

So those are some of the issues you will find if you wander away from Satsuki - coarse branching, or big leaves, or long internodes, or sometimes difficult horticulture, or ??? It all depends. Do your homework, other Rhododendrons are certainly worth the exploration. The landscape Rhodies, like 'Rosebud' have relatively small leaves, but they do not form finely branched structure. They could be used for medium and larger sized bonsai. They do have good winter hardiness.

Browse http://hirsutum.info/index.html and other sites to see what is out there. There are some interesting possibilities.

I personally think a number of the Vireya group of Rhododendron should be trialed as possible tropical bonsai. They come from the same habitats as many of my favorite orchids for home growing. Some of them at least in theory should be acceptable growing alongside my Cattleya or Dendrobium orchids. At least in theory.
http://www.bovees.com/
Leo,
Where can I buy Azaleas around here? I mean nursery stock
 

Gsquared

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I did some work on a kurume azalea many years ago. It had a nice trunk and responded well to pretty much everything I did to it, but one spring it just decided not to bud out, which was the end of that one, months later of course. I've wanted to try an azalea again but am a little gun shy for them.
 

Mellow Mullet

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I did some work on a kurume azalea many years ago. It had a nice trunk and responded well to pretty much everything I did to it, but one spring it just decided not to bud out, which was the end of that one, months later of course. I've wanted to try an azalea again but am a little gun shy for them.

I have had a couple do that, was always a root issue, stayed to wet and root rot set in. It happens mostly in the winter here, it is hard to keep them from staying too damp.
 

GrimLore

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I've wanted to try an azalea again but am a little gun shy for them.

You might consider a Hino Crimson Kurume Azalea - very hardy. They are not tiny leaf but under 1 1/2 inches so they can and often do make a very nice larger Spring bloomer.

Grimmy
 

Mellow Mullet

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I have used others besides satsuki for bonsai. I have a lot of kurumes, and to be honest, I like them better that satsukis for foliar growth.

Here is an indica called glacier white in this thread:

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/glacier-white-progress.19258/

The leaves are quite large on this one in the beginning, but have reduced down to 1/4 of the size, and contrary to popular belief, the flowers are a little smaller, too. The growth is a little hard to control, but manageable. I picked it up at Home Depot years ago.

This is another indica, I don't know the name, but it is similar to "pride of Mobile" but has pinkish-purple flowers. I haven had it as long as the glacier, but it is manageable and the growth pattern is about the same. Got it at the flea market.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/another-nursery-azalea-gets-a-chop.19187/

This is another, I have no clue as to the name, but definitely not satsuki.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/ska-azalea.20060/

Oh, and the one called Congo, not satsuki either:

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/azalea-congo-chop.14132/

I have found that most any azalea readily back buds and will take tons of abuse when you initially cut it back. If you find one with a nice trunk, give it a whirl, if it turns out to be a dog you can always plant it in the ground. Sorry for all of the links instead of pictures but I am at work so my net time is limited. You can search my threads, I have quite a few on azaleas.
 

GrimLore

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The hino's leaves will reduce to at least one half inch.

TY, I have only grown a few which were sold/traded. All I really know about them is that they are still alive a few years later and not taken care of as we would :p

Grimmy
 

Mellow Mullet

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TY, I have only grown a few which were sold/traded. All I really know about them is that they are still alive a few years later and not taken care of as we would :p

Grimmy
I figured you knew, lol. I like hino crimson more than most of the satsukis I have , they have a real tight growth pattern.
 

GrimLore

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I figured you knew, lol. I like hino crimson more than most of the satsukis I have , they have a real tight growth pattern.

Hard to explain to most people but in a short two years you can with a bit of work have a worthy plant. I am currently looking at three to play with again as the property is healthy. An added plus in these parts is they need no special Winter protection unlike the Satsuki types. Myself I highly recommend them to new and old to this sport ;)

Good to interact with you as well! Crystal sends her best to you and yours :)

Grimmy
 

Vasyl

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Most nurseries in the Chicago area should carry the Northern Lights varieties. They were developed by the U. Of Minnesota.
So, are they suitable for bonsai?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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So, are they suitable for bonsai?
Northern Lights type azalea tend to have a cluster of leaves at the end of the branches. At the end of the branches, the internodes are very short, forming an area with a lot of buds. Then the next year, a branch will run a long distance with out any buds, then at the end another cluster of leaves, short congested internodes and buds. This is not as easy to work with for bonsai as the normal pattern for Satsuki. Not impossible to work with, just different. No articles I know of outline how to use deciduous North American azaleas for bonsai, so we have to experiment and develop techniques ourselves.

Most NA native azaleas are moderate to very fragrant, which is another good reason to try them. Mine I could smell from 6 feet away on a sunny day.
 
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