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Heterospathe glauca

LJG

By LJG
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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Dypsisdean Grand Master

Dypsisdean

Posted
Posted

As a point of reference, this palm at Floribunda is identified by Jeff as Heterospathe glauca.

gmp

Next time you are at Jeff's, ask him if it is being renamed. I am pretty sure it is since it can't be a Heterospathe due to the crownshaft. Well, unless you change the description of Heterospathe to include fully crownshafted palms too.

.... and I could be wrong.... :)

Jeff discusses this in some detail in Part 3 of the "Marcus Garden Tours" HERE beginning with slide #45. You can go to slide #45 (in Part 3) and begin the tour, and Jeff's explanation, if you let the slideshow load (30 secs) and then use the numbered thumbnails (option in the toolbar).

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

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LJG Grand Master

LJG

Posted
  • Author
Posted

As a point of reference, this palm at Floribunda is identified by Jeff as Heterospathe glauca.

gmp

Next time you are at Jeff's, ask him if it is being renamed. I am pretty sure it is since it can't be a Heterospathe due to the crownshaft. Well, unless you change the description of Heterospathe to include fully crownshafted palms too.

.... and I could be wrong.... :)

Jeff discusses this in some detail in Part 3 of the "Marcus Garden Tours" HERE beginning with slide #45. You can go to slide #45 (in Part 3) and begin the tour, and Jeff's explanation, if you let the slideshow load (30 secs) and then use the numbered thumbnails (option in the toolbar).

You couldn't just tell us what he says? :)

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Matt in SD Veteran

Matt in SD

Posted
Posted

At RPS, they are listing this as Heterospathe glauca = Ptychandra glauca. RPS is pretty good at keeping up with new naming, so I think this is fairly reliable...it will no longer be Heterspathe.

These are an easy grow in SoCal. I may move mine out of full sun as it tends to yellow a lot in winter, but it does survive and grow in full, full sun. They seem to be quite adaptable.

Matt

San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

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Dypsisdean Grand Master

Dypsisdean

Posted
Posted

As a point of reference, this palm at Floribunda is identified by Jeff as Heterospathe glauca.

gmp

Next time you are at Jeff's, ask him if it is being renamed. I am pretty sure it is since it can't be a Heterospathe due to the crownshaft. Well, unless you change the description of Heterospathe to include fully crownshafted palms too.

.... and I could be wrong.... :)

Jeff discusses this in some detail in Part 3 of the "Marcus Garden Tours" HERE beginning with slide #45. You can go to slide #45 (in Part 3) and begin the tour, and Jeff's explanation, if you let the slideshow load (30 secs) and then use the numbered thumbnails (option in the toolbar).

You couldn't just tell us what he says? :)

You're lazier than I am. :) He mentioned several possible names, several people he has been in discussions with, the reasoning behind it, herbarium samples, and DNA analysis, along with some cultural and other info. You want me to paraphrase all of it for you, and make sure I get the info and spellings correct? One of the possibilities was Ptychandra, as Matt mentioned - a genus I had never heard of, nor could I find the spelling, after looking under "T"

I think he also mentioned Dransfieldia as a possible genus. So I thought the link might be helpful for anyone truly interested, and willing to invest a couple of minutes listening to Jeff. Here's a couple more pics from Part 6 of the same series.

post-430-002780300 1290901275_thumb.jpg

post-430-098224600 1290901278_thumb.jpg

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

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LJG Grand Master

LJG

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dean, can you email this to me and FedEx the original?

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Dypsisdean Grand Master

Dypsisdean

Posted
Posted

Dean, can you email this to me and FedEx the original?

I'll bring it by personally in the morning. Will that be soon enough?

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

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  • 3 months later...
richnorm Grand Master

richnorm

Posted
Posted

So is it the real Heterospathe glauca that is doing well in socal or plants grown from Jeff's mystery crownshafted palm?

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Just1MorePalm Community Regular

Just1MorePalm

Posted
Posted

:interesting: Excuse me...Any updates on this beauty?

Please post the pics...

:interesting:

Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?...

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  • 5 months later...
Mandrew968 Grand Master

Mandrew968

Posted
Posted

I just got a couple H. glaucas that came from the Marcus garden. They are not wobbly, and from babies, they look just like a Heterospathe with the blushing new leaf, and the overall structure. I also have two Dransfieldia micranthas and the two palm species look nothing alike--not to say they won't be gentetic allies when the dust settles...

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  • 2 months later...
MattyB Grand Master

MattyB

Posted
Posted

Here's an update on my H./P. glauca. Not sure what to call this one.

It's a trouble free grower. Slow growing at this stage but it looks great for SoCal. I have it in mostly shade with some late afternoon sun.

post-126-019622900 1320778636_thumb.jpg

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Bags Mentor

Bags

Posted
Posted

These look like a winner for SoCal. I have a friend that has a two gallon or so size plant taking almost full coastal sun. They are not supposed to have a crown shaft, but it sure looks like one to me. Plus a red emergent leaf!

Encinitas, CA

Zone 10b

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  • 7 months later...
Dr. George Mentor

Dr. George

Posted
Posted

Thought I would bump this topic considering the article in the most recent issue of Palms on the discovery of this palm in Papua New Guinea and its offical naming as Heterospathe barfodii (Gardiner et al., Palms 56(2) 91-100). Nice article and with some great pics. - gmp

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PalmatierMeg Grand Master

PalmatierMeg

Posted
Posted

Thought I would bump this topic considering the article in the most recent issue of Palms on the discovery of this palm in Papua New Guinea and its offical naming as Heterospathe barfodii (Gardiner et al., Palms 56(2) 91-100). Nice article and with some great pics. - gmp

So, to be clear, this palm is now H. barfodii rather than H. glauca? Or are they two different species?

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Dr. George Mentor

Dr. George

Posted
Posted

Thought I would bump this topic considering the article in the most recent issue of Palms on the discovery of this palm in Papua New Guinea and its offical naming as Heterospathe barfodii (Gardiner et al., Palms 56(2) 91-100). Nice article and with some great pics. - gmp

So, to be clear, this palm is now H. barfodii rather than H. glauca? Or are they two different species?

There is a legitimate, accepted H. glauca (Scheffer 1876), but it is not the species in cultivation. The species in cultivation and the subject of the discussion of this threat, and specifically the palm in the Marcus garden, does not match the type specimens of H. glauca and has been determined to be a newly identified species from Papua New Guinea that is different than H. glauca. DNA testing has established that this palm is a member of the genus Heterospathe. Jeff is one of the co-authors on the paper so I am pretty sure that he would be on board with all of this.

gmp

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LJG Grand Master

LJG

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I need to read this when I get my journal. I can't imagine the plant I am growing as H. glauca and that does pretty well in SoCal is actually from New Guinea. Then again I guess it should be odd this plant was suppose to be from the Moluccas and it was growing well here.

:)

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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richnorm Grand Master

richnorm

Posted
Posted

I need to read this when I get my journal. I can't imagine the plant I am growing as H. glauca and that does pretty well in SoCal is actually from New Guinea. Then again I guess it should be odd this plant was suppose to be from the Moluccas and it was growing well here.

:)

Maybe from the PNG highlands? Must be heaps up there to be discovered for growers in cooler regions. Is the real H glauca actually known in cultivation?

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Dypsisdean Grand Master

Dypsisdean

Posted
Posted

George,

The following may not be correct, but try and help me out.

I remember a H. glauca that Garrett had for sale before you arrived on the island. And I believe he later told me that it was not really H. glauca. And I believe he may have received the seeds from a garden on Oahu. Do you know anything about this, or if this could be the same palm in the Marcus garden? Do you know where Jeff's seed came from?

Either way I'll get it straightened out. I will be seeing him in a couple of days for a photo shoot.

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

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Dr. George Mentor

Dr. George

Posted
Posted

George,

The following may not be correct, but try and help me out.

I remember a H. glauca that Garrett had for sale before you arrived on the island. And I believe he later told me that it was not really H. glauca. And I believe he may have received the seeds from a garden on Oahu. Do you know anything about this, or if this could be the same palm in the Marcus garden? Do you know where Jeff's seed came from?

Either way I'll get it straightened out. I will be seeing him in a couple of days for a photo shoot.

Sorry Dean - Don't know anything about what Garret may have had. I am only famaliar with the beautiful speciman at Floribunda, and that one is included in the study reported. Apparently Jeff's originated from seed obtained from Donn Carlsmith in 1990, and there is speculation in the article that all of the more mature specimens of H. barfodii in culture may have originiated from the same seed source around that time. So, it is possible that there could be specimens on Oahu, and I'd bet there must be some specimens somewhere on the old Carlsmith estate.

gmp

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Dr. George Mentor

Dr. George

Posted
Posted

Maybe from the PNG highlands? Must be heaps up there to be discovered for growers in cooler regions. Is the real H glauca actually known in cultivation?

According to the article, distribution of H. borfodii is lowlands of mainland Milne Bay Province, Papua New Guinea, and habitat is described as: "Lowland tropical rainforest vegetation at about sea level. The type locality is an open grassy area at the side of a dirt road through the forest."

Also - the article notes that there are only a few herbarium specimens of the true H. glauca collected in the Maluku, Indonesia and from cultivation in Bogor and Singapore Botanic Gardens. From my read of the article, it appears that the last one known in cultivation was at the Bogor Botanic Garden and it sucummed to a lightning strike in 1971.

gmp

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  • 1 month later...
stygiana Rising Star

stygiana

Posted
Posted

I need to read this when I get my journal. I can't imagine the plant I am growing as H. glauca and that does pretty well in SoCal is actually from New Guinea. Then again I guess it should be odd this plant was suppose to be from the Moluccas and it was growing well here.

:)

You mean you grow it in NZ?!? Wow, that's cool!

The fact it's from PNG is not so much of a problem, but where in PNG! Lowlands or high elevation? That is the trick!

PNG high altitude palms are good candidates for NZ (and coastal Calfornia, maby some southern parts of Australia, etc), like Ptychococcus lepidotus we actually discuss in another thread.

And by the way, what surprises me is that Heterospathe barfordii (mistaken until now for the unknown-in-cultivation H. glauca) is described in the last Palms journal issue as coming form the lowlands, at sea level!!! And THIS is really strange. A lowland near coastal palm from PNG growing happily in SoCal (MattyB's photo is great, congratulations man :greenthumb: ) and apparently cultivated too in NZ... This is just unbelievable!

Maybe there are other populations of this palm at higher elevation?

Sebastian, garden on La Palma island, 370 m (1200 feet) above sea level / USDA Zone 11/12 ; Heat zone IV / V

Record High: 42°C (107F) / Record Low: 9°C (48°F). Rain: 600 mm (24 inches) per year with dry/wet seasons. Warm Season: July-November / Cool Season: December-June
Warmest month (August/September) average minimum temperature : 21°C (70°F) / Warmest month (August/September) average maximum temperature : 28°C (82°F)
Coldest month (February/March) average minimum temperature : 14,5°C (58°F) / Coldest month (February/March) average maximum temperature : 21°C (70°F)

Temperature of the sea : minimum of 20°C (68°F) in march, maximum of 25°C (77°F) in September/October.


 

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 years later...
BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

I was thinking about this saga the other day... any updates would be cool.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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LJG Grand Master

LJG

Posted
  • Author
Posted

This is a steady but really slow grower for me. 

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

  • Upvote 3

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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quaman58 Grand Master

quaman58

Posted
Posted

I tried one in an exposed location about 4 years ago & it didn't survive. So I planted another I had in a protected spot & it's doing fine. Just slow around here.

  • Upvote 1

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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Matt in SD Veteran

Matt in SD

Posted
Posted

Same experience as Bret.  I put one in full sun and it was struggling, so I dug it and moved it to a more protected spot where it has slowly recovered and currently looks great.  A bit behind Len's.  Definitely slow here.

 

Matt

  • Upvote 1

San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

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LJG Grand Master

LJG

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I agree they don't like sun at all. Mine is yellow from peek-a-boo winter sun only. Maybe 2 hours worth a day. 

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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MattyB Grand Master

MattyB

Posted
Posted

Just like you guys have touched on:  mine hated the couple hours of late sun it got in winter.  It struggled, tried to make a comeback and then ultimately died.  Does not like sun that's for sure.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hilo Jason Grand Master

Hilo Jason

Posted
Posted

Here's mine that I actually dug up and moved to a better location today. It was too crowded in its original spot. It's only holding 2 leaves right now as the sprinkler valve stopped working in this zone while I was out of the country for awhile. So it wasnt getting much water at all.  I'm happy it's still alive and hope it does well in its new spot. 

image.thumb.jpg.254032dd33a42ace88a1a3af

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Fallbrook Jason said:

Here's mine that I actually dug up and moved to a better location today. It was too crowded in its original spot. It's only holding 2 leaves right now as the sprinkler valve stopped working in this zone while I was out of the country for awhile. So it wasnt getting much water at all.  I'm happy it's still alive and hope it does well in its new spot. 

image.thumb.jpg.254032dd33a42ace88a1a3af

looks like it didn't skip a beat!!

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Hilo Jason Grand Master

Hilo Jason

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Josh-O said:

looks like it didn't skip a beat!!

Time will tell. It's only been in that spot for 2 days! 

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Fallbrook Jason said:

Time will tell. It's only been in that spot for 2 days! 

keep us posted :) 

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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