Legislators confronted with chemtrail concerns

they , the government are hiding the truth from us. they use the pretense that the are protecting us, really from what?, its illegal to sell dairy products to your nieghbour,to sell meat cut and wrapped to your nieghbor, to sell many herbs for holistic purposes, to own or install a composting toilet,to drive a motor vehicle with out a license, to build a home with out permits,to collect run off water for any purpose, to gather as a group and discuss the failures of our government. But it is legal to smoke,drink,gamble,have abortions,have our children injected with mercury and other chemicals and call it vacinations to preserve our health. I really wonder just who are they protecting....

They are slowly killing us with this stuff sprayed in the air up here. We have more chem-trail days then clear days in Snowflake. I want something done about it. I have sent info to Sylvia Allen, on this issue but have received no reply as yet. Do people ever look up? This is a crime against humanity spraying us with toxic aluminum, barium and all sorts of nasty stuff. After heavy spraying for days, without let up, people end up getting sick with respiratory and stomach problems. It gets worse every year. I am seriously for a no fly zone over Arizona. I am sick to death of the Corp-Government fascist takeover of our country and these psychopaths in congress who work for the pay masters, who make millions off of spraying us like lab rats without our consent or permission.

A really mad constituent [angry]

I wonder what the con(densation) trails were called before there was any such thing as "chem-trails"?

[yawn]

Anybody bother to pay attention to where the "chemicals" are falling to from such a high altitude?

Right you are reata, chemtrails are a silent "soft kill" weapon being used against an unsuspecting populace. As stated in the article, the Carnegie Institution in addition to the Rockefeller Foundation, NATO and the Pentagon are among the major proproents behind this clandestine poisoning of American citizens. I have seen G. Edward Griffin's documentary film ; What in the World are they Spraying. I strongly urge everyone else who in concerned about this expolsive issue to do the same, there is also a great deal of research related readings available on the topic as well that is not hard to find. One day several weeks ago I had to travel to Flagstaff, I woke at about six o'clock in the morning and by about seven thirty I already started to notice the chemtrails criss-crossing the morning sky (I check for these every morning). I left the house at about nine o'clock and I counted around twelve or thirteen chemtrails. By the time I had reached just south of Holbrook there were twenty seven chemtrails lingering in the once blue sky as the day began to take on a sort of metalic haze. I commented to my wife; " Uncle Sam is spraying us heavily today". There is so much to be said on this matter and it deserves both research on the part of the citizens and answers on the part of the dark elements in government. The establishment is bound and determined to manage your longevity and chemtrails are just another weapon in the arsenal alongside toxic food additives and toxic pharmaceuticals being used to keep the "herd" in line. Please research this topic everyone and demand answers. Geoengineeering and the phony "Global Warming" hoax are attempts to make the people accept being sprayed like cockroaches with toxins. Does big government really hate us that much ?

Nice to see a piece of real reporting from this newspaper. Now you need to follow up on this groundbreaking story and bring this issue to the forefront.

Well one way to handle the "problem" is outlaw all flights over arizona. Shut down sky harbor. Send all Aerospace jobs elsewhere. That way we would know for sure. And since we are outlawing things. lets outlaw vacinations, water treatment, science in schools, Medical research jobs.

Camulos; contrails which are made up of condensation disappear shortly behind the aircraft and are not visible long after the aircraft's wake. Chemtrails on the other hand are much different and these are the trails that linger long in the atmosphere and gradually dissipate over the course of a morning, afternoon or even an entire day. To the informed and obsetrvant eye they are obvious and easily spotted. These are sprayed most heavily on calmer days with less wind so that they will hang longer in the atmosphere and cover a more concentrated area . Furthermore, they are easily differentiated from clouds of any type by ther hue that tends to have a grey metalic (aluminum) shade and also by the vertical streaking that occurs as they float dowm to the face of Mother Earth to deliver their toxic payload to the soil, water and all life forms including you and your family. Your tax dollars at work . This has been going on since the eighties however, in the past decade or so this has been greatly increased as the final push towards global governance in taking place and the people are starting to wake up.

Yeah, it's about time this paper started covering this issue. A few years ago, there was a series on chemtrails in the Pioneer by this same writer, she knows this subject.
Anyone who is a skeptic just needs to start watching the sky...that should be all it takes to convince you.
Too bad Karen Johnson's not still a senator. At least it gives me hope that some government types are paying attention.

"Camulos; contrails which are made up of condensation disappear shortly behind the aircraft and are not visible long after the aircraft's wake."

Che, you're assuming ideal conditions. If it's cold enough, they'll stick around.

I see your point, but am not convinced, still.

And we know who these people are because they send their children to school wearing gas masks everyday. They aren't stupid enough to spray this stuff and then breathe it themselves, so they wear gas masks which the rest of us can't afford.

Mountain Hick... your name fits you quite well!
Caring about what's being dropped into our air to spray the fields is important. If it's toxic in the air, I can't help but wonder... is it toxic in our food too?

AzFreeBird, Yes i may be a hick, but contrails have been happening for may may years. The reasons are very simple, when you burn jet fuel at high Altitude, anything left unburnt will bond with water vapor, making clouds. This is what you see. Now does this have an effect with the rain that falls to the ground, of course it does. But this conspiracy theory of the government or corporations trying to kill off people. Is where I call B.S. This is a by product of the flights, Now if you do not want to have those things happening, you have to stop aircraft from flying so high, stop them from burning fuel. Now seeing how many millions of people fly every year. That wont happen. I was simply pointing out how far some people would push their ideas of given the chance. To stop all contrails that is what you would have to do. As for the water treatment, those of the conspiracy realm say this again is the evil government or corporations trying to kill us off. Or those people that refuse to get their children Immunizations because of said evil groups. Most of this can be dealt with real honest science, sometimes you can not get to the real reasons, you do your best.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/science/contrail.php?wfo=fgz

^^ This makes sense.

This>> http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml looks like a seriously bored, lonely, paranoid delusional with too much time on his hands.

Just sayin'.

" All truth passes through three stages. First, is it ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self-evident. "

----------------- Arthur Schopenhauer ,
German Philosopher 1788-1860

It is not my intent Camulos to convince you, or anyone else for that matter about anything. These topics are indeed repugnant and difficult to wrap one's mind around let alone accept. Reality is that we have all been lied to be it from your church, school or government. Nothing is as it appears and absolutely nothing works the way you have been told that it does. The mainstream media deals in illusions and fabrications and is not to be taken seriously by any thinking person. Mankind is at a crossroads that will set the course for the remainder of our stay on this little planet. I simply attempt to present facts based on research, patterns, observations and historical events. I applaud your willingness and ability to see points that differ with those you have been conditioned to believe, this is a crucial first step . There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

THE THREE STAGES OF TRUTH
1,) RIDICULE
2.) VIOLENT OPPOSITION
3.) ACCEPTANCE

Ok Skeptics do some common sense REASEARCH on your own like I did. I KNEW for yrs something was being put into the atmosphere. I spend A LOT of time outside and LOOK UP. This summer was much worse, more obivious and now it really is. We no longer can see for miles, there is a dirty brown fog in the morning and evening that is sticky. Visibility here a LONG ways away from ANY city is less than 1/2 mile in the MIDDLE of the day. IT DOESNT TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING IS GOING ON PEOPLE!
I first really started doing research myself on VISIBLE things. Like the sticky BROWN crystals I found on my swimming pool that FELL from the sky after I counted THIRTY TWO airplanes criss crossing the sky at about 5000 ft not 25000 where the atmospere is COOL. I could look at the planes with binoculars and SEE there was NO writing or numbers on the plane. I took the crystals and had then analyzed and found BARIUM and STRONTIUM SULFATE.
Now I DO hold a degree in CHEMISTRY know the Periodic Table of Elements like most people know there address. I know what is happening in NOT GOOD! People here are SICK. Yes I did RESEARCH at the hospital. Sat in the ER and WATCHED who came in with WHAT symptoms.
So choose to keep your head in the sand and make fun of stuff your are just too STUPID to understand and SEE for your self!
I for ONE am TIRED of being LIED to and forced to accept.
[angry]
THINK YOU CAN TRUST YOUR GOVERNMENT? WHY DONT YOU DRIVE OUT TO THE REZ AND ASK SOME OF THE INDIANS !

Oklahoman, just a few questions. Not knowing where you live. I cant say that I have seen the same things. but you must be along some flight path. 32 planes in a day is quite a bit. On average I may see 6 to 10. You have pictures and video of these low flying unmarked planes? There are now other industries around you? Have you had you water tested to see if those chemicals are there? Because those two chemical are common in fireworks. And before you start get all worked up. This is how science works, you have put out your theory, I am now suggesting other things it could be. As for the ER, do you know all the information. You are just hearing symptoms. Its like hearing someone speaking spanish and assuming they are illegal. They could be 10th gen american. As for trusting the government. I dont trust anyone. People make mistakes, and on average people will do whatever is easy, and not look at other factors or will throw out good information because it doesnt fit.

When I was a kid in the 1960's there was 1 route by the recently introduced B737's that passed right overhead the beach I used to get burned on a lot in summer.

And they produced these long thin tendrils of white that would sometimes be there an hour later when the return flight made another as it went back the other way.

this is in the south pacific a long way from the USA.

The so-called "research" into "chemtrails" illogic and supposition connecting irrelevant information (calling it "facts" is wrong too..) at best. Paranoid delusions at worst. In between there is bad science, sheer ignorance of the natural world, and probably deliberate misrepresentation.

Research into contrails, on the other hand, is decades old. A French recce pilot reported contrails forming and expanding over the sky behind his plane in 1940, US pilots reported the same phenomena in mid-WW2.

There is a wealth of meteorological data on them - but the guy who made "what in the world are they spraying" is _PROUD_ that he didn't consult any "experts", because they all owe the Govt something therefore are all part of the conspiracy!

For actual facts (ones that can be checked and verified), real research and common sense I recommend a long visit to http://contrailscience.com/ - which also sorted out the "missile" off California for y'all a few weeks ago.....

This document from the United Kingdom Royal Society and many other documents clearly state that geoengineering is and has been going on fro some time.

http ://www.scienceprogress.org/2009/10/uncivil-engineering/

A report from the United Kingdom’s Royal Society, Geoengineering the Climate , which was released in September 2009, elicits a whole range of open questions with regard to the subject. For instance, a hard radiation management proposal, stratospheric sulphur injection, would have adverse effects on stratospheric ozone and would have a negative impact on the biological productivity, including food production. In this case, the cure could be at least as bad as the disease.

http ://www.infowars.com/httpwww-youtube-comwatchvdtxvwlruee8/

Rosalind Peterson of California Skywatch was a certified U.S.D.A. Farm Service Agency Crop Loss Adjustor working in more than ten counties throughout California. She now spearheads a watchdog group that monitors uncontrolled experimental weather modification programs, atmospheric heating and testing programs, and ocean and atmospheric experimental geoengineering programs Peterson is at the forefront of the chemtrail research field and how the unexplained patterns that scar our skies are “causing detrimental human health effects and environmental degradation.”

Meg2008 wrote:
This document from the United Kingdom Royal Society and many other documents clearly state that geoengineering is and has been going on fro some time.

http ://www.scienceprogress.org/2009/10/uncivil-engineering/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Meg, I have perused the document you referred to, but find your claim that nothing there "clearly state(s) that geoengineering has been going on fro(sic) some time"
BTW, the document at your URL isn't from the Royal Society.

The fact of the matter is that no atmospheric scientist will ever be a "chemtrails" believer. Scientists must have proof, not belief.

Meg also touts the website of Califonia Sky Watch. The problem is that the website doesn't believe in "Chemtrails" at all.
This is a quote from the California Sky Watch site:
"Persistent contrails can last for hours while growing to several kilometers in width and 200 to 400 meters in height. Contrails spread because of air turbulence created by the passage of aircraft, differences in wind speed along the flight track, and possibly through effects of solar heating."
""The "Chemtrail" Hoax: A hoax that has been around since 1996, accuses the Air Force of being involved in spraying the US population with mysterious substances and shows various Air Force aircraft "releasing sprays" or generating unusual
contrail patterns…The "Chemtrail" hoax has been investigated and refuted by many established and accredited universities, scientific organizations, and major media publications…"
http://www.californiaskywatch.com/documents/pdfdocs/air_force_contrails_aircraft_engine_exhaust.pdf

Maybe we can get Julian Assange to find out the truth. [wink]

""The "Chemtrail" Hoax: A hoax that has been around since 1996, accuses the Air Force of being involved in spraying the US population with mysterious substances and shows various Air Force aircraft "releasing sprays" or generating unusual
contrail patterns…The "Chemtrail" hoax has been investigated and refuted by many established and accredited universities, scientific organizations, and major media publications…"

I would venture that if organizartion/side-of-the-coin names were substituted, the message would be the same. Seems the 'believers' view the 'non-believers' as perpetuating a hoax (or the lack of existence of a hoax?).

Jay -

Would it be fair to say that science has both proved and disproved the existence of the "chem-trails", and therefore DOES require faith, based on whichever set of 'proofs' one chooses to believe?

And this:

"Research into contrails, on the other hand, is decades old. A French recce pilot reported contrails forming and expanding over the sky behind his plane in 1940, US pilots reported the same phenomena in mid-WW2."

That matches what I was taught throughout three years of Aerospace Science, covering the history of flight to modern times (okay, as far as the late '80s, anyway). Chem-trails are another 'boo-hoo' of the hippy tree-hugging breed. Same folks that want everyone to stop buring fossil fuel while driving gasoline-powered vehicles to the protests at the refineries...

I'll grant that the exhaust from the planes isn't the cleanest and most likely DOES contain harmful pollutants, but 'on-purpose' sprays at the altitudes the stuff is dispersed would not allow it to fall 'straight down', so who's to know exactly what's being 'sprayed' unless and until they get a mason-jar full from the plane as it's being sprayed or at least 'loaded'. I don't think anyone's quite followed the 'unmarked planes' into the sky, or followed them to see where they go, how they spray, et cetera.

I don't see enough 'proof' to convince me, so therefore I believe they are not what the chem-trail accusers say they are.

What would convince me?

Let's see:

Manufacture and type of plane/photographs
Pilots' testimonies on inter/national television
Specific chemicals (not a breakdown of all the junk found floating through the air)

What I see thus far is poor science (agenda-driven) and no 'proof'.

[wink]

Re:"Seems the 'believers' view the 'non-believers' as perpetuating a hoax (or the lack of existence of a hoax?)."
This would be an example of circular reasoning. Think of it this way:
Believers: "I see trails in the sky, my hypothesis is that they must be spraying chemicals."
Non-Believers: "What proof do you have for this statement?"
Believers: "These facts are true X,Y.and Z"
Non-Believers: "X is false because of _____, Y is false because of _____, and Z is false because of _____. If you wish to prove your premise, however, you could begin by identifying the planes making the trails, then inspecting them for spraying apparatus. If you do this, you could prove/disprove your hypothesis.
Believers: "All you have to do is LOOK UP! Prove to me that these are not spraying!
You are lying!"
Non-Believer: "I have shown your claims to be false. I have shown you a method of proving your hypothesis, yet you refuse to do so and make ever more unfalsifiable claims. I cannot prove a negative. If you persist in making these claims despite evidence to the contrary, and refuse to avail yourselves of a falsifiable means of gathering evidence, I must conclude that you are knowingly perpetrating a hoax.
====================
Re: "Chem-trails are another 'boo-hoo' of the hippy tree-hugging breed. Same folks that want everyone to stop buring fossil fuel while driving gasoline-powered vehicles to the protests at the refineries"
Actually, there are many other reasons people latch onto this Belief and can't seem to let go. Usually, it is because the idea supports a previously held belief. These previously held beliefs can range from Global Warming, fears of orverarching government, or simple hypochondria. This is also why so many refuse to discard their belief in Chemtrails. One belief supports another, and they are loathe to discard 'chemtrails' lest it introduce a cognizant dissonance into the previously held belief.

Earth Day 1971:

The "facts" by the "experts" stated boldly that within 10 years, ALL major fish species would be dead and washing up on shore.

Global Warming alarmists stated, based on (again) "facts: supplied by "experts" that from the late 1970s-ish, that the plaet would be uninhabitable due to "global warming" with sea-levels rising some 20+ feet, et cetera. Of course, that was on the tail end of the exact opposite: global cooling that was to leave us in an ice age by now.

So again I state that those who 'believe' have just enough 'evidence' to convince themselves.

[beam]

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”Be persistent. In time the opposition around you will fade and fall away.
"Gandhi"
Truer words were never spoken. There is so much undeniable evidence out there about chemtrails/geoengineering that skeptics don't want to reveal for themselves. Critical thinking is a skill that has gone by the wayside hasn't it? If the information doesn't fit in with a so called intelligent persons schema of life, based on of course, how life for them has always worked in the past then it should not, does not , cannot exist.
That is the skeptics logic, plain and simple. No thought put into it, no research, no curiosity. The skies can be sprayed for years on end(it has), people get sicker than ever despite our big pharma putting out more and more drugs to 'cure' us, a new disease, Morgalons, on the horizon(here since 2002) with implications to aluminum poisoning that our government has dumped a whopping $30,000 to research, whistle blowers in every corner of the aviation industry, aluninumand barium oxide levels tens of thousands times higher than the toxic level, a history of our government spraying our soldiers. The list goes on and on, but for you out there that still don't believe: you can thank us later.
Keep up the good work Karen Johnson, I wish we had more people like you in our state.

HELP WANTED

We need people to run out to the windfarms with their generators and de-icers. The 1600 gallons of turbine oil is like molasses, and we can't turn our lights on. Thanks.

So-called "chemtrails" are simply ordinary contrails made of water vapor.

Jay: You are an idiot.

Where's your proof to back that up? The chemtrails stay in the sky... The water vapor trails don't. Research this more. They are spraying us with aluminum particals which are causing us to have a increase in alzheimers. Alzheimers patients are being tested after death only to find that there is a build up of aluminum deposits on the brain. Jets that were tested are passenger. These jets were clean. It's the Navy who is spraying this. Look it up. They are putting aluminum particals in the spray to reflect the sun. Research HAARP. Lots of ignorant people who are turning their heads the other way to this. I would strongly advise you all to do some research on this.

CHEMTRAILS STAY IN THE SKY... VAPOR TRAILS DON'T... GO FIGURE...

RESEARCH HAARP BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

"CHEMTRAILS STAY IN THE SKY... VAPOR TRAILS DON'T... GO FIGURE..."

The only thing to figure here is where you get that from - it is complete rubbish. Contrails have been seen to stick around in the sky since at least 1940 when French recce pilot Antoine de Saint-Exupéry noted the one he made did so - and it even spread out behind it.

Aluminium is the 3rd most common element in the crust of the earth - the dust you breath has plenty of it. You cook in it, your beer and soda come in it, many deodorants have it as an ingredient. Why on earth would anyone need to spray it at 30,000 feet to "poison" us??

HAARP causing earthquakes, etc is another fantasy invented by fertile minds - if you actually do RESEARCH it, rather than just reading the conspiracy sites you will find out that it is aimed at the ionosphere - roughtly 160,000 feet altitude and upwards - which is a rather long way above where aircraft make contrails - typically 30-40,000 feet.